Curse

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Yeah, yeah -- it's use is limited outside of degenerate builds like Bloodspike in GvG and HA.

But the 2 uses here -- [skill]order of pain[/skill][skill]dark fury[/skill]

They, to me give quite a positive future in Blood Magic. I'm not much of a Necro guy, but I think Blood Magic has a place in the support line of things.

Vampiric Gaze -- Hex Spell -- For X seconds, whenever target foe takes physical damage, the player causing that damage also steals Y life. (Much like Barbs)

Please note I'm just thinking up random ideas...

Discuss changes for Blood Magic to become a more viable skill line, imo.

the kurzick eater · Apr 04, 2008, 04:36 AM // 04:36

they need to add more party support in (such as party life steals and such) OoP is a good start, they should expand on whole party effects for blood magic line.

just my two cents.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

The only problem is, though -- you've also got Bloodspike in the way.

I think a viable change before any revamping done to Blood Magic would be making the enemy who's had lifestealing done to them immune to lifesteal depending on the power of the skill and scaling with Blood Magic.

xDusT II · Apr 04, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Less redundant Life Stealing DD's, more work on Wells, Siphons, Orders and Blood Bond type skills.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Titles don't really mean much anymore to be honest...
And Blood Magic is quite pathetic aside from the 2 skills I mentioned, and that ugly degenerate spike, Bloodspike.

I'm not sure whether it's fixable or not, but it's worth having a discussion over regardless.

@Dust -- That would mostly require skill names being changed...unless it's sorta like the example in the OP.

Cathode_Reborn · Apr 04, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

They're improving Blood abit, but doing it verrrrrryyy slowly......it could be many months till they make it viable, since GW2 has been gettin in the way of updates.

Nothin's gonna get done posting here though. If you really wanna be heard, get some ideas in the Glad section here, or Izzy's skillfeedback page - Anet actually took some ideas suggested from users in a sorta recent update (most noticable, the change to Strip Enchantment).

Besides Spoil victor and orders, Blood magic is pretty junky. On a rare occasion though, I'll run some SV build just because it counters most stuff.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Agreed on Glads section. But checking on both forums would be good.

Div · Apr 04, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

blood bond- 10/.75/5. for 1..8 seconds +1..8 regen, -4 degen. heal for 10..80 at end.

helps a bit against heavy degen teams. acts as support skill against spikes with heavy ench removal

blood of the aggressor- 15/1/10. 10% sac. if target foe is attacking, target foe takes 5..50 damage and your party is healed for 5..50.

midline partyheal that doesn't involve e/mo hp or rits.

mark of subversion: 20 recharge, 4 duration.

makes necros better at shutdown.

ravenous gaze: 5/1/5. target foe takes 40..60 damage. all party members within earshot are healed for 30..45 health.

divine healing/heaven's delight with spike assistance and shorter recharge on a necro

A lot of what midline characters do is provide:

a) spike assistance (paragons, eles, mesmers)
b) shutdown (mesmers, rangers)
c) pressure (paragons, rangers)
d) offensive party support- blinds, blurs (eles)
e) defensive party support- prots, heals (HP eles, paragons)

As it is now, most necro templates suck at those things. Making necros better shutdown and defensive party support types is a good way to go, and these changes reflect that.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 04, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by the kurzick eater

they need to add more party support in (such as party life steals and such) OoP is a good start, they should expand on whole party effects for blood magic line.

just my two cents.

Which.. goes against the in game description of Blood Magic entirely.
Direct Damage and Life Stealing.

Until this description is changed, I will remain disappointed with Blood Magic.

There is also already a Blood Magic thread existing here.

masta_yoda · Apr 04, 2008, 08:19 AM // 08:19

make some new vampiric life steal enchant skill like conjures

Stormlord Alex · Apr 04, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire

Which.. goes against the in game description of Blood Magic entirely.
Direct Damage and Life Stealing.

Until this description is changed, I will remain disappointed with Blood Magic.

I think you ought to stop being so... anal, and accept that Blood can never be a viable damage line for the good of the game.
And for the record, my manual(s) describes Eles as the best damage-dealers in the game - which, as we all know, is also bullshit. Never believe what A-Net says.

Quote:

There is also already a Blood Magic thread existing here.

Except Sardelac fails.

On-topic - I agree wholeheartedly. Blood already has some interesting concepts to play around with - Orders are obvious and good, Blood Bond could actually be a good skill with a slight buff, Life Siphon needs a 1 sec cast and it's suddenly strong. Skills like these just need buffing a little bit.
A slight buff to Mark of Subversion, and the Blood necro can also help in shutdown - SV + MoS will make it really painful for monks to get things done.

And, holy - I really, really like the idea of making some of the life-steals into party heals.
Any chance of doing the same with Shadow Strike?

Shadow Strike 10e 1c 10r
You deal 12...41 damage to target foe. If that foe is above 50% health, you deal an additional 6...20 damage and your party is healed for 15...51 health.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 09:49 AM // 09:49

I'm really liking some of the stuff there, Divine!

But what about more things like Dark Fury and OoP? Only real problem is it might be a bit overpowered in my opinion. Maybe some skills identicle to Heal Party?

Blood Renewal?
Oppressive Gaze?

Just brainstorming here, but...

Blood Renewal. Spell.
10 sac. 15 energy. 1 cast. 15 recharge.
Steal X life from target and adjacent foes. Your party is healed for half the amount stolen.

Oppressive Gaze. Enchantment Spell.
5 energy. 1 cast. 10 recharge.
Target ally is enchanted with Oppressive Gaze for X seconds. Target ally deals X more damage.

My imagination says bye today...

EDIT -- And what about Wells?
In my opinion, they are quite situational, but maybe a functuality change to make it less situational?
Say a health sac and it's sort of like a Ward? Or if your targetted enemy is below X% health?

Kale Ironfist · Apr 04, 2008, 11:51 AM // 11:51

@Stormlord Alex
Why Shadow Strike, when we have the aptly named Unholy Feast?

Also: Touch of Agony/Wallow's Bite and Vampiric Touch/Bite
Would changing them into enchantments that read like:
The next time target ally/party member attacks, they do X and this ends.
be a problem?

For example, a revamped Vampiric Touch might read:
For 5 seconds, the next time target party member attacks [physical attack? melee attack?], that party member steals X..Y health if that attack hits. This enchantment ends after they attack.

Stormlord Alex · Apr 04, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

@Stormlord Alex
Why Shadow Strike, when we have the aptly named [i]Unholy Feast[/i

Unholy Feast isn't used for spiking ever x]

Quote:

Also: Touch of Agony/Wallow's Bite and Vampiric Touch/Bite
Would changing them into enchantments that read like:
The next time target ally/party member attacks, they do X and this ends.
be a problem?

For example, a revamped Vampiric Touch might read:
For 5 seconds, the next time target party member attacks [physical attack? melee attack?], that party member steals X..Y health if that attack hits. This enchantment ends after they attack.

Also totally awesome.
Kill touchers and make Blood guys better at buffing melee?

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Yeah but it does seem quite imba ima.
Maybe Melee attack on VTouch, though, and make it 10 energy 10 recharge.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 04, 2008, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I think you ought to stop being so... anal, and accept that Blood can never be a viable damage line for the good of the game.

For the good of the game or for the good of every one QQing about bloodspike?

There are plenty of ways to have offensive skills in blood magic without it being spammable//spike worthy.

A lot of good examples of this were already stated in said previous thread. (And potential fixes for bloodspike whereby making it protable.)

Thanks for reading, though.

Blood magic already has plenty of support skills, which there are nothing wrong with.

I'm not completely against blood magic having more utility, I just think it needs to be a bit more.. well rounded. Death, Soul Reaping, and Curses all have good utility, both for offense and defense.

Of course, I might just be still anal.

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 12:33 PM // 12:33

All Blood Magic has is Order of Pain and Dark Fury. Maybe SV, but that's even more of a "This'll be useful here" skill. It's just not worth taking OoP and DF because the rest of the Blood Magic line is so bad.
Besides, balancing around this imo, should disable all direct lifesteal coming from the Necro or whatever profession is using it scaling with Blood Magic.

It should fix Bloodspike, and open up Blood Magic to being more...viable.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Apr 04, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Viable is the safety word for neutered carcass.
Disabling direct life steal is NOT the answer, mitigating it, is.

There is no reason, making *direct* life stealing skills from the blood line deal shadow damage if your health is over 50-90% wont solve the problem.

Shadow Damage is protable.

Bloodspike would be solved.

Necros have their direct damage, but it's not overpowered.

example; Protective Bond v. new blood spike;

Target has 600 hp, lets say the Necromancer has.. lvl 18 blood magic form ATB.

Fires off Shadow//Lifebane Strike as the introduction to your typical bloodspike.

30 shadow damage + 55 life steal (or 30 shadow damage if Necro is above 50-90% health.) second one, same deal. 120-170 damage tops. Again, provided THEY are above 50% health too, as is already required by Shadow//Lifebane Strike. Blood Spike damage is now HALVED. Now, if you add, spirit bond into the mix, it's negated entirely. (Unless I'm missing something.)

Tyla · Apr 04, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Spirit Bond only disallows it if the 60 was delivered in 1 package.
And this is to fix Blood Magic and stop Bloodspike in the process.
Making it more of a support line should get it in balanced teams more, as a buffer to damage and supporting your own people. Like Divine's suggestion.

Kale Ironfist · Apr 04, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Yeah but it does seem quite imba ima.
Maybe Melee attack on VTouch, though, and make it 10 energy 10 recharge.

Actually, the numbers I had envisioned (not that it has any bearing on the skill mechanic) were 10% sacrifice, 1 energy, 1 activation, 3 recharge OR 5 energy, 1 activation, 5 recharge and a range of 10..40. The health stolen is kept low because the vamps can stack. The recharge is low-ish because it only lasts for one attack, whether or not it hits (and therefore whether or not the life steal is triggered). Like Ghostly Weapon.